Allan Cubitt Talks About 'The Fall' with Yahoo

Yahoo Australia - The dark, twisted world of psychopath Paul Spector returns to SBS this week with the launch of the second season of British crime drama The Fall.

Spector, played by 50 Shades of Grey star Jamie Dornan, is on the run wanted for murder but he still has business in Belfast. Part of it involves playing with the mind of his pursuer, Det. Supt Stella Gibson (Gillian Anderson).

Allan Cubitt, creator and writer of The Fall and for this season its director, sympathises with people who find Spector disturbing. On one level, Spector is totally normal — he works as a bereavement counsellor and appears to be a good husband and father to his two children. But on another, he is a stalker of women, invading their homes and ultimately killing them.

“There is a constant threat from Spector and I understand that his presence is deeply unsettling,” Cubitt said. “It is because you sense that something awful is coming.

“One of the things I was pleased with was the scene in the first season when he breaks into a house and moves a cup of tea. It is one of the most frightening things because he is messing with people’s minds, he is getting under your skin.

“I think another reason The Fall has been so unsettling for people is that you are invited to spend time with this person. In the conventional shows you don’t do that but then you never understand the psychology of the killer either.

“I am laying out his psychology right from the very beginning when he leaves his children on their own and is out burglarising someone’s house, and it is a fetish burglary, that is indicative of a lack of responsibility and a psychopath’s lack of awareness of the consequences of his actions.”

But it is not just Spector’s character that Cubitt explores. He also slowly reveals more of Gibson’s backstory in season two.

There is a clue to what may come in seasons two and three in his explanation of the title of the series.

“It came from Paradise Lost really, from the notion of a fall from grace. Obviously it is Spector’s fall but also Stella’s to some degree,” Cubitt said.

“It was the notion of Lucifer beginning as an angel and falling to Earth and becoming a devil, and so it links to my ideas about what children are like when they are first born and then what happens to them thereafter.”

The role of Gibson was not written with Anderson in mind but Cubitt said she quickly became the obvious choice for the role.

“My starting point with Stella was to avoid the usual baggage that I think these characters in TV dramas often have — their failed marriages, or their alcoholism.

“I thought in the first season I would not tell the audience very much about Stella at all; I would just allow them to get to know her little by little. And that enigmatic quality is something that Gillian is particularly adroit at playing.

“In all kinds of small moments she reveals deep feelings in Stella but she recognises that as a professional she has to keep them under control. As you watch season two you will see more of her emotional life emerging.”

Cubitt says he did not expect The Fall to be renewed for a third season. It has been and Anderson and Dornan have both signed on.

“I always hoped to get the first two and that continued the story up until the point where my original thoughts had got me,” Cubitt said. “Now there is season three . . .”

The Fall starts on Thursday at 8.30pm on SBS

Allan Cubitt Talks About 'The Fall' and Season 3 Plans

The Sydney Morning Herald - In the film Fifty Shades of Grey, Irish actor Jamie Dornan played a man who enjoys hurting women. In the TV series The Fall, which resumes this week on SBS, Jamie Dornan also plays a man who enjoys hurting women. In Fifty Shades, Christian Grey seeks permission from the women he hurts. In The Fall, Paul Spector murders them, which makes him the target of Detective Superintendent Stella Gibson, played by Gillian Anderson.

The parallels are somewhat frustrating for the creator of The Fall, Alan Cubitt, because they distract from his purpose in writing about psychopathy and misogyny and the sense of entitlement some men feel in their power over women.

"I don't know if Fifty Shades of Grey has any serious political or intellectual content or not," Cubitt says, "but I think it's confused things for me and for The Fall that Jamie chose to do that part. That was his decision. I wasn't party to that decision. If I'm honest, I think it's maybe a tad unfortunate for The Fall, because The Fall has a very serious intent behind it, and I don't know about Fifty Shades of Grey."

Cubitt came in for some criticism that season one of The Fall was making an entertainment out of social problems such as stalking and domestic violence. He thinks season two will clarify his intentions.

"I understand that initially if you started watching The Fall, you couldn't know how deep into gender politics I was going to get with the piece," he says. "I've seen many, many gratuitous TV programs, with all kinds of violence against women just used as a device. My aim was always serious and political and moral. By the time we got to the second season, many more people were recognising it and calling it essentially a feminist piece. I'm the father of a daughter so I've thought about it a lot over the last 20 years."

Does he want viewers to understand the behaviour of the psychopath Paul Spector, played by Dornan?

"Yes, yes I do. The only way you can have any understanding of why certain people do the things they do is by recognising that their behaviour has meaning for them. The challenge is to understand what could conceivably be done culturally in terms of how we treat offenders of that sort. The tabloid kneejerk is that they're monsters and should be locked up, or better still, destroyed. It's a massive challenge to think that someone like Spector can be an abused child as well as a sexual predator and what are the implications of that for the rest of us.

"These individuals have a very strong sense of self-entitlement. They think if they want something they should be able to take it. Something we all need to be taught as children is that that is not the case in this world. We need to learn deferred gratification. It's not just an issue that relates to psychopaths. It's a modern problem that people feel entitled to fame and celebrity, let's say, or to wealth, or to material possessions. It's become part of our culture, I think."

Just as SBS is about to show season two, Cubitt and his actors are about to start filming season three, wherein the battle continues between the devious psychopath Spector and the determined detective Gibson. I asked Cubitt to reassure us that by the end of season three, justice will be done.

"I'm not going to make any such promise, no, but if you know where I'm coming from, given my political leanings, given my feelings about the females in my life, there was never any possibility that this could have been ever anything immoral or misogynistic or any of those things," he says. "So there won't be an easy answer for that, but I hope you'll enjoy it."

The Fall, season 2, starts on Thursday, November 19, at 8.30pm on SBS (Australian TV Channel).

via @JamieDornanBR

Allan Cubitt Talks About 'The Fall' Season 3 and Jamie

at 1:15-4:33

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Allan Cubitt Talks About 'The Fall' and Jamie

I was trying to articulate what’s so compelling about The Fall. We’ve seen so many crime shows, is it that we’re more interested in the behavior of these characters?

Alan Cubitt: “I think so. I think crimes of that complexity are always interesting. It’s not really about finding lots of evidence, building up a case in quite the conventional way either. So I think you’re right. I think for me the crime is the starting point to an exploration of lots of other things I find interesting and I’m glad that you find interesting too about the nature of human beings, human interaction, male/female relationships, aggression, violence, love, human compassion, empathy. All those things I think are bubbling around in The Fall all the time and that’s the stuff that interests me. I started out as a playwright and I think of myself as a playwright. It’s important to me that TV drama is about something.”

Is Spector aware as a grief counselor that he’s causing the sort of traumas his patients are experiencing, or does he compartmentalize those two sides of himself?

Alan Cubitt: “No, I think they’re linked in a way that Jamie perhaps doesn’t want to acknowledge. In my initial reading, it’s quite clear, with very few exceptions – Col. Russell Williams is an interesting exception to the rule – that most of the people who perpetrate crimes like this are not high achievers. They have a very, very high opinion of themselves, often thinking that they’re cleverer than anyone else, and that they should’ve been destined for great things but somehow the world has conspired against them and they have not achieved what they think they should’ve achieved. So they have a huge sense of entitlement and a huge sense of anger at the world. They are frequently, therefore, drawn to jobs where they’re able to wield a degree of control.

There’s a weird number of them who wanted to be police officers in some kind of way but have ended up either as hangers-on to police culture or performing acts where they have some kind of control they can exercise. Like Dennis Rader who was some sort of counsel. He was giving people tickets for their grass being too long or impounding dogs who were stray. What he would do when he found a dog that was stray, he’d have it put down and then he’d tell the people that he had to have it put down. He wouldn’t give them the chance to claim the dog. He was wielding a kind of cruel, sadistic power over people.

The other thing that they’re sometimes drawn to is jobs with mobility. So that’s what set me thinking about the idea of the bereavement counselor. I think he gets some perverse pleasure from their grief and he feeds off of their grief in some kind of way. And I think he’s very aware that he is the cause of that kind of grief. He finds it empowering in some fashion.”

You said Jamie would disagree. I asked him and he actually agreed that Spector was aware of both sides.

Alan Cubitt: “Oh, okay, good. I think as an actor he wanted to feel that there was love for his daughter or that there was some professional concern. For me, the thing that I decided to do with the bereavement counselor was to set myself the task that everything he says is legitimate, possibly even good advice. In season one, when Liz Tyler turns to her husband and is angry at him for not being able to articulate the way he feels, Spector says, ‘Men and women grieve differently, Liz. Try not to make comparisons.’ I think that’s true and it’s also good advice, but we know he’s manipulative. We know he’s feeding off their emotions in a way. We know when he tells her that she should not feel threatened in her own home, it’s ridiculously ironic. When he says, ‘The fault is always with the abuser, not with the abused. Stop your husband. Let’s get him in prison.’ That’s because he wants Tyler out of his life so there’s always this sense that Spector is trying to play everything and everybody. He needs to control everything. What’s interesting is that Gibson is trying to control everything too so you’ve got two people trying to control the world around them when in fact it’s probably an impossible thing to achieve anyway.”

It is good advice, better than snapping a rubber band every time you feel depressed.

Alan Cubitt: [Laughs] “But it worked for her. We have yet to find out when she did that, but yeah.”

In between seasons, when Jamie got cast in this blockbuster movie, had you plotted out season two already? Did you know that when you had Jamie Dornan tying up women, that might relate to his other role?

Alan Cubitt: “Yes, I didn’t think I had any choice but to continue to do what it is that I’d set out to do in the first place. I’ve tried to not involve myself in that other project in any way. I don’t really know what happens in it. I don’t really know what he does in it. I think inevitably when it comes out, it might have an impact on where we go beyond the second season with The Fall.”

I hope it only makes people interested in seeing his other work, and they’ll discover The Fall.

Alan Cubitt: “I hope so.”

I assume that was in his character before he was cast in Fifty Shades of Grey?

Alan Cubitt: “Completely. The Fall preceded that and it’s entirely Jamie’s decision to go for a part that has a sadomasochistic dimension to it. You’re right, I had worked out a modus operandi for Spector which included using bindings and that’s what I decided to do from reading the research. It felt coherent. It felt real. It was based on extensive research.”

The name Spector suggests a ghost perhaps. Was that part of your design?

Alan Cubitt: “I had the notion that he was an outsider in some kind of way, that when I brought in Gibson from the outside that he would be someone who wasn’t in the bosom of an extended family that had a name that is not Northern Irish, that stood out. Obviously there’s the thing about it being a Jewish name and that’s worked through the second season as well. Fewer people picked up on Spector as a spectre than I thought would. All the names are guitars.”

That was on the internet, so it’s intentional?

Alan Cubitt: “Yes. I am a guitar player and I have a love obsession with guitars. So Gibson and Spector are both guitar makes. Spector is a guitar make but I must have felt as I was searching around in names that it suited him in some kind of way, but I’m glad to say that no one has said how convenient it is that he’s called Spector when he does hold the drama in a nighttime sense.”

Source

Producer Allan Cubitt Talks About 'The Fall' Season 3 Plans

HitFix - The second season of "The Fall" won't premiere on Netflix until January 16, so don't go spoiling things, fancy-pants British who have already seen all six episodes.

I'm certainly not going to spoil anything from the second season, which concluded on BBC One on December 17, but at the Television Critics Association press tour on Wednesday (January 7) morning, creator Allan Cubitt teased that a third season is likely, even if hasn't been formally announced.

"We're in a situation where I'm very confident there will be a third season.  But because of internal BBC situation at the moment, it hasn't been officially announced," Cubitt told reporters. "I think the story can continue, but I'll have to reserve judgment on that, I think, until I get the green light and the go-ahead."

"The Fall" originally premiered on BBC Two in May 2013 and drama, which stars  Gillian Anderson as a British police officer tracking a serial killer (Jamie Dornan) in Belfast, migrated to Netflix soon after. While the first season was produced for the Beeb, but only distributed by Netflix, the second season has become a co-production with Netflix.

So that means that "The Fall" is already partially an American show and it features a rather well-known American leading lady, as well as a leading man who was a regular on one network show ("Once Upon a Time") and has a large studio movie coming up. "But that hasn't stopped Hollywood from circling The Fall," Cubitt says.

"We were approached, and we had a deal that fell through for a remake of 'The Fall,'" Cubitt says.

I can't instantly find a record of that deal/development, but given FOX's remake of "Broadchurch" and the network's possible development of a "Luther" remake (as well as dozens of other Brit-to-Yank translations of the years), it's hardly surprising that the idea was floated.

Though many a Brit creator has had a hand in Americanizing their shows, Cubitt doesn't seem enthusiastic about the prospect.

"I think there's probably still sort of, maybe, interest out there," He said. "I think maybe after the second season, there might be more. For me, we share a common language. I'm not quite sure why you would remake 'The Fall,' particularly for the American market. I'm really gratified by the fact that Belfast accents seem to present no problem. So I'm very happy with you guys watching what we've created."

So set that quote aside for when the remake rises again.

"The Fall" Season 2 begins on Netflix on January 16.

***

Deadline - In the world of Netflix series, the concept of a “season” is all but obsolete since all installments of a group of episodes premiere on the same date. But at a Netflix TCA panel today on its crime drama series The Fall, series creator/writer/director Allan Cubitt said that traditional seasons very much have shaped the storytelling of this series, borrowed from the BBC.

The Fall’s second season of 6 episodes launches on Jan. 16 on Netflix. It began airing for UK audiences last November. Will there be a third season? “I can’t answer that at the moment (but) it’s a situation where I’m very confident there will be third season pending an official greenlight from the BBC”, said Cubitt.

Because the series was launched under the BBC’s weekly-installment model, Cubitt said that the concept of seasons was very important when the show was being conceived across the pond.

“When I first pitched the idea for the BBC I asked for 12 parts, knew I needed at least that much time to get through the first part of story,” said Cubitt, who appeared on today’s panel with stars Gillian Anderson and Jamie Dornan. The BBC then told him good news and bad news: They wanted the show, but the season was going to be only five hours. “(I asked) do I have to end the story?”

BBC said there was no requirement to have a story ending for Season 1— but Cubitt said he chose to end the first season on a cliffhanger in hopes of a second season. “It would have been very strange I think if there had been no second season,” with serial killer Paul Spector (Dornan’s character) driving off with his family. “Netflix put money up in front of Season 2, so we knew were working with Netflix at the start of the second season. ”

Cubitt also said he has an idea for an ending for the series but controversies over the ending of such series as The Sopranos or Dexter have made him realize there’s no way to please everybody.

He added that audiences should not expect an American version of The Fall. He confirmed that there had been a deal in place that fell through, but said “I’m not sure why you would remake The Fall… I’m very happy with you guys watching what we’ve created.”

Anderson was asked how the Netflix model and today’s binge-watching opportunities differ from the experience she had on the popular The X-Files. “That was a different planet, that was before any of this,” she said. “The X-Files was the beginning of appointment television. We’re the end of appointment television.”

Allan Cubitt Talks About 'The Fall' and Jamie

Allan Cubitt, writer of BBC2 drama The Fall, answers criticism that the Gillian Anderson thriller glamorises violence against women.

Allan Cubitt: "I had the story for The Fall mapped out from the beginning. If I was to tell the story in all its complexity, I needed 12 episodes, which I knew was ambitious. I was asking for something that doesn’t happen often but you live in hope. So the second series is essentially the second half of the story.

There was a misconception that this was a serial killer story. But that was the starting point to move into a psychological study. For me it is more of an existential thriller, not a serial killer story or police procedural. We didn’t set out in any way to make a violent programme or a show depicting awful acts. I have a real aversion to graphic violence being used as a plot point. There were serious intentions underlying what we were trying to do. It is important both lead characters are compelling. I am as happy spending time, dramatically, as disturbing as it might be, with Paul Spector (Jamie Dornan) as I am with Stella Gibson (Gillian Anderson).

Jamie Dornan wasn’t well known when we saw him for a smaller part. But I found him interesting, charismatic. We ran through a scene with Spector’s son, and some people who auditioned for the part looked like they wanted to strangle their own child. They were playing a kind of rage-driven murderer as if that’s what he was all the time. But Jamie understood he could be more subtle.

I didn’t think much about how good looking he was.  But I did think that if you have someone as iconic on the screen as Gillian Anderson, and you are an actor, to balance her they’d better be interesting to look at.

Jamie and Gillian Anderson On The Cover Of The Guardian Guide - New Interview

Deep within a former army barracks in Belfast, I am peering inside a car boot, looking for clues. Someone has set the vehicle on fire, but if they were hoping to destroy everything incriminating they’ve not done a great job. There’s a training shoe. A piece of a stocking. A trolley wheel. A bra. As in a real investigation, the vehicle has been sprayed with glue to make sure vital evidence doesn’t get blown away.

On the set of The Fall, attention to detail is all. Now returning for a second series, the drama concerns a meticulous psychopath (Paul Spector, played by Jamie Dornan) and the painstaking operation led by DI Stella Gibson (Gillian Anderson) that aims to catch him. Unlike most crime serials, The Fall isn’t a whodunnit but a whydunnit. It uses the time other shows might spend on red herrings to build intimate profiles of detective and criminal.

“That’s probably explored slightly more in the new series,” says 32-year-old Dornan, perspiring slightly after a game of football with the crew. “From Spector’s point of view, you might find out more about him and more about why he is the way he is, rather than the… doing.”

The Fall brings us up close to both parties, often uncomfortably so. We’ve seen Gibson wolfing down a room-service burger, and looked inside her post-coital bathroom bin. We’ve watched Spector stalking his victims but also washing his daughter’s hair and working as a bereavement counsellor. These chilling juxtapositions have proven addictive. Each episode of season one drew over 3 million viewers, and helped make Dornan a star, possibly at a price.

“In a worrying way, I find Paul relatable,” Dornan says. “There’s times when I scare myself how his reactions would be similar to mine. You carry some of that anger with you. You can’t fail to be left scarred by inhabiting something like that for two seasons.”

HQ Scans From Radio Times Magazine + Gillian Anderson and Allan Cubitt Talk About 'The Fall'

*Jamie's interview is the same with 'The Fall' Season 2 Q&A

Scans

 

Transcripted by us

THE COP AND THE KILLER

The hit drama is as controversial as it is popular. So why are star Gillian Anderson and writer Allan Cubitt so tetchy? - The RT Interview by Ginny Dougary

Allan Cubitt, the writer of The Fall - BBC2's highest-rating drama launch in eight years - arrives first, early for our interview. He is a slightly rumpled looking man, with kind brown eyes. Next is Gillian Anderson, aka DSI Stella Gibson, tiny and chic in high heels, her manner immediately friendly and later quite fierce.

The synopsis of The Fall is this: serial killer Paul Spector, played by Jamie Dornan, is on the loose in Belfast. He is alarming for all sorts of reasons other than the fact that he kills young professional women. He is extremely good looking (who wants to fancy a serial killer?), seemingly a loving father to two small children, a considerate husband, and works in the utimate of caring professions as a bereavement counsellor.

This element was partly drawn from the author Ann Rule's experience of working alongside the American serial killer Ted Bundy at a suicide helpline, and being impressed by his compassionate manner. "The idea that the bereavement counsellor is gaining, in some way, a weird emotional succour from other people's grief," as Cubitt says, "it very disturbing."

The cleverness of the writing is that Gibson is also somewhat disturbing, as well as a compelling character. Initially, she comes across as coldly self-contained, only occasionally revealing glimpses of a more empathic person. As Anderson said after the screening of a season two's first episode: "She doesn't reveal much about herself, so the little bits she does feel quite large." Early on, Gibson invites a colleague (whom she hasn't actually met but spies on the street) to her room for sex: he is married, and later shot dead.

Parallels are drawn between her objectification of a man she is attracted to, and the way women are often objectified by men - at its most extreme, by a killer such as Spector. Comparisons are also drawn between the growing twin obsessions of the killer and the woman who is determined to track him down. At the end of season one, Spector is on the run. Season two opens with his return and the threat of more murders.

Although The Fall's reviewers were generally as enthralled by the series as its three million viewers, it also came under attack for supposedly glamourising violence against women. At the preview, Cubitt said: "One paper said it was the most disgusting drama ever seen on television, but I don't see how that can be supported."

New Interviews With Jamie, Gillian Anderson and Allan Cubitt + New Short Clips From 'The Fall'

Allan Cubitt's interview (includes 2 new short clips from The Fall season 2)

1th clip starts at 2:28 and 2nd one starts at 6:00

Full Transcript of 'The Fall' Season 2 Q&A

*Transcript contains some spoilers about Episode 1

BBC Drama boss Ben Stephenson introduced the screening, describing the first series of The Fall as “a phenomenon”.

Adding: “It was just brilliant. An incredibly bold and insightful and controversial in all the right ways drama. Moving on to series two he said it was “something really extraordinary. In all ways it’s gone up by a huge level”.

Ben continued: “Gillian Anderson was already one of the world’s most iconic actresses and I genuinely believe she and her blouses have taken this show on to a new level. Yet again her performance is extraordinary. And Jamie, who a few years ago was unknown and was relatively new to acting and is now a seasoned pro. In this series I just think goes from great things to great things. I think they’re an extraordinary team. Maybe they’ll meet in the show, maybe they won’t. Who knows? I do.”
 
Edited extracts (removing any major spoilers) from the Q&A with: Gillian Anderson (also an executive producer) / Jamie Dornan / Allan Cubitt (Writer, creator and director). Hosted by 
Benji Wilson:

Q: Allan – a second series is commissioned, you sit down at your writing desk. What decisions do you have to make?

Allan Cubitt: “It’s no secret that when we originally pitched the idea, we pitched for 12 parts. So there was always some story arc in my mind that would have taken us, and has taken us, into a second season. So it wasn’t entirely unchartered territory. I had ideas about where it was going to go. But we did start a process of deciding how we would develop things that we set running in the first season. Work with characters that we felt were particularly compelling in the first season and how we would carry them on into the second season.”

Q: Was there ever any question that you might take it away from Belfast?

Allan Cubitt: “No, there was never any question of that. In fact it’s the reverse for me. The trick is how to keep it in Belfast. Because it’s so integral to the show and so much part of the texture of the show and clearly the context and the history and the culture and so on. But also it’s just a great place to work. So I particularly love being there and I love working there.”

Q: Gillian – what was your reaction when you first read the scripts for series two?

Gillian Anderson: “I thought it was one of the best things I’ve ever read. And I was completely taken by Stella and it didn’t take much convincing. I just thought it was extraordinary and had extraordinary potential.”

Jamie Dornan: “Yeah, similar. I didn’t feel that you could move that substantially far forward in terms of what we did with the first series and how moved I was by the first series and how much I wanted to do it. But the second series was just like…when Allan first sent it to me…it just transcended everything that I thought it could be. You’ll see as the series goes on. It’s quite remarkable what it entails. So I just couldn’t wait to do it, really, when I got it.”

New Picture of Jamie and Director Allan Cubitt on 'The Fall' Set

The picture has taken a few weeks ago.

click for full size

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Jamie and 'The Fall' Creator Allan Cubitt's Interview with BBC One

Source | Youtube

Jamie and Gillian Anderson return for 'The Fall’s Season 2

BBC - Filming has resumed in Belfast for the much-anticipated second series of hit BBC drama The Fall.

The drama picks up where series one left off, with six hour-long episodes and Anderson at the helm as Detective Superintendent Stella Gibson continuing her increasingly desperate hunt for the serial murderer Paul Spector (Jamie Dornan).

Written by Allan Cubitt (The Hanging Gale, The Boys Are Back, Prime Suspect 2), series one of The Fall received international critical acclaim and became BBC Two’s biggest drama series to launch in over 10 years. The series had a consolidated average audience of 4.3 m and 16% share, with the final episode averaging an audience of 4.7m and 17.8% share.

The first series of The Fall distinguished itself notably by identifying the killer from the start, and through the investigation of the murder of a single female across one season was able to reveal the chilling nature of Spector’s behavior – unusual in allowing the audience to invest in the story of the murdered victim and not just the murder enquiry.

Despite Gibson and Spector never actually meeting on screen, the chemistry between the two characters was electric and the escalating rivalry became the lynchpin of the first season and left the audience crying out for more.

The story picks up immediately from where series one left off, with Gibson in pursuit of Spector. A personal link from Spector’s past opens up some clues for Gibson but provokes Spector in way that threatens to jeopardise the whole investigation. Gibson is forced to take ever greater risks but the closer she comes to capturing him, the more Spector trespasses into her private world, delighting in taunting and provoking her. As the net gradually tightens around him he becomes psychologically ever more dangerous and destructive.

On her return to the role, Gillian Anderson says: “I'm over the moon to be back in production with this team again and to step into the shoes of the elusive Stella for what promises to be an even darker second season.”

On his return to the role of Spector, Jamie Dornan says: "I’m delighted to be back in production for the second series of The Fall. Allan Cubitt has outdone himself, and the scripts are stunning."